female cheaters vs. male cheaters

"Cupid's Arrow" wrote:

Of course, every female would respond that she would be monogamous, which is amusing considering how many women I know who cheat on their SO’s…

Ah, life’s little ironies…

CA

I can see why you would feel that females cheat. What I think is: most PEOPLE cheat. Men tend to feel less guilty when they are young or be more upfront about it as they mature; and may not even consider it cheating because for a long time it’s been socially acceptable in most cultures for a man to have women on the side. Although in the past it was mostly understood and not so much agreed to out loud…and perhaps historically it was only accepted for men of certain status, power or class.

Women on the otherhand, historically have never been appreciated for saying that they wanted an open relationship (except for maybe the 70s and early 80s). So women who would prefer open relationships tend to try to conform insomuch as they lie about being monogamous (which they think they need to do) or they involve themselves in a comitted relationship (which they think they’re supposed to do) then cheat.

That’s why as crazy as the poster who railed on about feminism sounded, he was right about one thing. Women want to be able to do what men do and not apologize for it (which it why you will get unapologetic cheaters) they know men have been doing it for centuries.

Not that two wrongs make a right. I think that was what he would have pointed out if he were normal. Instead, I think he was pissed off that men couldn’t do whatever they wanted without women wanting to do the same thing…which of course, is troll-like and no longer realistic.

You guys in college probably think I’m nuts, and think that women at uni hold a lot of power — and that’s confusing. But as I said in earlier posts, campus is a freer place for women, where non-traditional ideas can be exchanged and acted upon with less judgement…THEORETICALLY. After being at uni a few years, many women realise that the guys they want don’t appreciate women who sleep around. The same way men realise that the women they want don’t appreciate men who sleep around. This is why cheating on monogamous relationships exists: trying to get a person who doesn’t appreciate an open relationship to be in a relationship with you and then finding out later that you still need that back door…

This is not making excuses for women or men. The point is here that women feel less comfortable about being upfront about monogamy and openness than say, you do CA. The madonna/whore complex is not just a catchy phrase — women deal with this imposition their entire lives. Which is why you would see them as liars.

As you also know CA, you are unique amongst men, and amongst people, in that you are honest and an open book. Many men don’t have the confidence or arrogance or however you’d like to put it to be that up front — so they resort to cheating too.

This unfortunately ruins it for honest people like you and me. I am honest about my monogamy, you are honest about your openness. Maybe as traditional society begins to accept that people will date and have sex with several people first without necessarily getting married — a lot of the need for the lying and secrecy will die down. Who knows? Probably not…

But at least you and I can seek out other honest souls and find out what they really think before taking the plunge.

Re:female cheaters vs. male cheaters

The modernization of “casual sex” has really bothered me. As a traditionalist, the concept of serial monogamy is dying. I’m scared to think of what relationshits will be like years from now. Since the sexual revolution and the acceptance of casual sex, it has removed the ideology of sex with love, and to an even greater scale, marriage.

Both men and women are liable to cheat equally, but in different ways. The way I see it, most women NEED closure. They need that someone to talk to. That sets the ball rolling for cheating (emotional affair to possible sexual affair). Women can be the most caniving bitches around. If a woman is in a relationshit with a man, she should only talk about personal self disclosing topics with him. Talking about it with others will eventually lead to cheating. This really challenges the notion of males and females being friends when they’re attached. That’s a whole nother topic that I could write a book on.

As for me, when I was in a relationshit, sure I would always be tempted. But I would never PUSH the communication as a way to not excaberate the situation. What’s the best way to beat temptation to cheat? Just walk away from it. It was hard, but for my girls at the time, I did what I would want done to me. After all, why would I be with them if I was going to cheat.

As for cheating for cheating’s sake, cheating really disgusts me. I’ve seen even the most “good” girls cheat on their mans. Some people are all talk but never actually practice what they preach. We all need strength in battling temptation.

Sex and love/marriage is a lost concept. Instead of sex for love, sex is for instinct/itchyness/horniness. Hopefully the two variables can come together again.

relationship

yes u are right

Re:female cheaters vs. male cheaters

Now now Charity, you left out the part where I stated that my mother, my grandmother, and a couple of my friends cheated on their SOs. :D

I’m not denying the fact that men cheat…but as you said, it is more common and in a sense more accepted (not to be confused with acceptable) that they do it. And feminism has more than its share of issues.

My personal fave is International Women’s Day…one day a year dedicated to observing women…so, by contrast, the other 364 days (365 in a leap year) must consequently be International Men’s Day (and I think it’s about damn time women recognized that fact :D). But I digress.

Feminism started out as a push for equality (and from thence forth for me will be referred to the Equal Rights Movement, or ERM), and then became so many branches that decided to push beyond equality (and subsequently the chauvinist backlash came about). However, the one problem with the ERM is that it was strictly limited to the benefits and not the penalties…case in point, you didn’t see members of the ERM pushing to get Karla Homolka locked away in jail forever when it turned out that she was a willing participant in three of the most brutal sex torture/murders in Canadian history…in fact, Women’s Groups paid for her bloody lawyer.

My point however is that ERM sought out sexual liberation and freedom, the right for women to have multiple partners without being labelled for it, and to some degree this has happened (though not to the degree that it should), but it did not seek out the right to commit adultery. In fact, adultery has been around forever, on both sides…men are just stupid enough to be caught at it more frequently. But if you look back in history, there are constant examples of women having their lovers execute their husbands. In one example, this was done by ramming a red hot poker up the bum of one so there weren’t any scars…well, noticeable scars.

This is not to say that I see women as liars at all. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever suggested anything derogatory in a general sense, but this is how I see things. And I’m not judging it one way or another (except for radical feminism…as far as I’m concerned there is never a wall and a hail of bullets when you desperately need one)…everyone is responsible for their own actions, and I don’t think cheating per se is right for anyone regardless of gender (outside of my specific example). People do it, and just like women who want to have multiple partners, bully for them.

Yet let’s take a look at the traditional views that Mike has. While everyone wants their sexual liberation, it comes at a cost, and that cost is the risk of life and limb. Monogamy is not just an issue of respect anymore, but an issue of health as well, and traditional values such as saving yourself for marriage are starting to make a comeback…and not just for women. I actually know a couple of guys who are saving themselves (although part of that might be an inability to get laid, or having access to the internet and Vaseline), as well as two women. The risk seems to outweight the benefits, especially with the cost of vibrators and internet access going down. :D

All in all, cheating is not a gender specific action. The uncommon/unspoken nature of it among women however has led to the backlash against the non-apologists, who, admittedly, may not need to apologize for being a cheater, but should at least feel some remorse for hurting their partner.

Wow…I have no idea if this makes any sense at all whatsoever…I gotta start getting sleep.

CA

Re:female cheaters vs. male cheaters

Hey Mike —

I think a lot of people share your concern about casual sex. I think that there’s a population of younger people who tend to be more idealistic about sex and love, while there’s another population who think that youth is for “sampling” and there’s another population who’s trying to find some kind of balance between the two.

My only gripe with traditionalists is not that sex should be an expression of love, but that they can be unrealistic in assuming that everyone does or should have the same goals when it comes to love and sex — and therefore label people who don’t share the same ideas. I do not think that traditional ideas about sex, love and marriage are wrong. In fact, I see myself more as a traditionalist than not. But just the mere fact that I think it is ok for people who love each other and are comitted to each other to have sex before marriage would be an issue with some traditionalists — and so I don’t label myself as such.

My serial monogamy is due to the fact that I think that physical interaction for me is only an expression of love — and that’s what I want it to be. Even though I believe this, I do not fear for society and the state of casual sex because I know there are many others like me, and not everyone has to believe the same thing for a “tradition” to be carried on…

So I’m not saying that sex should be casual. I’m just saying that I appreciate the fact that there are people out there who want sex to be something other than an expression of love — and I can’t expect them to be tied to the same expectations of a relationship that I would have. Neither would I want to be in a relationship with those people, because I would want the person that I am in a relationship with to have similar expectations. The problem comes when one of those people wants to be in a relationship with me, and then lies about what they believe because it is the only way I would date them.

That being said — if everyone were more accepting of people who think/act differently, I think people would lie less about how they think and act, and like-minded people would be able to find each other more easily and without any stigma. Does that make sense?

I dunno, maybe it’s wishful thinking. Maybe people who lie and cheat are always going to lie and cheat — no matter what other people do or do not think of them. And cheaters would rather be with loyal people because no one likes being cheated on — even cheaters — so they will gravitate toward people who do not share their multiple partner views anyway. That’s possible too. But I still think that women lie about it more than say men do because in this day and age most people still do not accept women who want more than one partner.

Re:female cheaters vs. male cheaters

"Cupid's Arrow" wrote:

However, the one problem with the ERM is that it was strictly limited to the benefits and not the penalties…case in point, you didn’t see members of the ERM pushing to get Karla Homolka locked away in jail forever when it turned out that she was a willing participant in three of the most brutal sex torture/murders in Canadian history…in fact, Women’s Groups paid for her bloody lawyer.

CA

I don’t know this particular reference to Canadian history…however, in America, when an ERM type organization pays for lawyers for a member of their particular community that commits a crime (say the NAACP for a black person or NOW for a woman) it is not to show support for that person committing a crime, it is to ensure that the minority in particular receive a FAIR TRIAL.

No matter how heinous the crime, it is possible for a minority or a woman to be judged more harshly than a white man for committing the same crime. It is unsightly and shocking for a woman to commit such a crime — thus making the crime so famous in the first place. I’m guessing that Karla Homolka wasn’t famous before these crimes, so we’re not talking about an OJ Simpson type infamy. Were the murders famous before her capture? Or did they get more press after it was found out that they were committed by a woman? In America, the famous “murderess” is Lizzie Borden.

Re:female cheaters vs. male cheaters

Hey CA —

I left out the part about your family because I was starting a new topic and didn’t know if you would appreciate that being part of the focus, when the topic was really about whether or why women lie about multiple partners, when they all say that they would be monogamous — while men like you are open about considering affairs outside the relationship.

——————————————————————————————————————————-

My point however is that ERM sought out sexual liberation and freedom, the right for women to have multiple partners without being labelled for it, and to some degree this has happened (though not to the degree that it should), but it did not seek out the right to commit adultery…

All in all, cheating is not a gender specific action. The uncommon/unspoken nature of it among women however has led to the backlash against the non-apologists, who, admittedly, may not need to apologize for being a cheater, but should at least feel some remorse for hurting their partner…

CA

———————————————————————————————————————————

I think the non-apologist females are a backlash to a long history of non-apology or social acceptance of male cheating. I don’t think it is right on either side. Nor do I think feminists expect to have a “right” to commit adultery. I do not think it is the true and open feminists who commit adultery in the first place. Women who to some extent are in the closet about their want for sexual liberation find themselves in a position to have to lie and cheat — otherwise they would just be open about it in the first place.

I do think terms are getting confused — having multiple partners is not necessarily cheating. It’s just that men are not considered sluts for having them and women still are — so they are more likely to lie about it. Not to be stigmatized or considered untouchable, it is easier for a woman judgement-wise to perpetrate being monogamous and then cheat and lie to have multiple partners rather than simply say that she prefers to have no relationship and multiple partners, or even a relationship that is an “open” one.

And women have cheated throughout history too. The point is not whether or not any women cheated throughout history. It’s that for the most part, historically, women were punished or judged harshly for such actions.

At the same time women were being punished, it was understood for men either that it’s part of the culture if they cheat; or that they not even be considered “cheaters,” but simply men who have multiple partners and a wife. The most powerful and famous men in North American and European history had wives AND mistresses or notorious dalliances with servants and/or prostitutes, yet this did not diminish their fame or position: Kings, Presidents, Generals, Bishops, a Pope, Ambassadors…the list goes on and on.

Women on the other hand would be, depending upon the culture: stoned, beheaded, imprisoned, disowned, forfeit their right to home and property, publicly shamed, etc. etc. In some countries it is still legal to beat your wife if she cheats. Those laws have still not been taken off the books. I do not know of any men who were imprisoned, stoned or forced to wear a scarlet letter for adultery — but I could be wrong. If you know of an example, let me know…

Although women are no longer publicly flogged in the US and Canada for being sexually promiscuous, there is still a double standard. Men are supposed to have experience. Women are considered sluts. Hence, the likelihood to hide the desire to experiment with new people.

Side note: I find it interesting that it is after the sexual revolution and the ERM that we are finally starting to hold political candidates responsible for their sexual practices. Why did the press look the other way in the 60s for Kennedy, but not for Gary Hart (whose presidential campaign was cut short) in the 90s? Is it a backlash to the sexual revolution? Or now that there is equality and open relationships are available, are people being held accountable for lying? Or a little of both…?

so what

women want what their men cant give anymore intimacy…thats where the thrill lies

why do they say all men are the same? *exhausted tone*

i believe in that not all men are the same not all of them cheat. i dont think that it also has to do with intimacy or monogamy or any type of wood *joke* but what i have gotten from my research in puerto rico men dont cheat unless they have been treated real bad by the only girl they have truly cared for. then other women pay for that girls broken plates. but in women in PR there is a problem with obsession. true nymphos and since they become so blind and dumb they think that men are all the same they are just here and one thing only. sex. if we find the real reason why women cant find a good man its because we push them too hard and later on close them in a box that all they see is you and they get sick men need space as much as any women.

women cheating well there are some women that want to play with hearts. or some just feel insecure. some just feel that more men feels like shes wanted. thats monogamy is no good for those types. but some of them just feel intimidated at the thought of monogamy that when their guy finally admits to having a monagamos relationshit they run to another.

it's 50/50

according to this pole it’s about 50/50 between men and women who cheat, so what’s the difference anway?

Awesome Post

Cool post, I will be sure to recommend to friends!

Hmmm

You know what. Men who cheat are assholes, same with women who cheat. There’s only one thing worse than cheating, and that’s cheating and trying to blame it on something else.

That’s why the idea that “it’s ok for men to cheat because they’ve done it for centuries” pisses me off. That’s just bullshit cheater talk, trying to justify something that simply cannot be justified. Same thing for women thinking that they are “getting back at men because they cheated for centuries” when they cheat. It’s something a shitty person does. Period.

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